Articles de presse Rapports des ONG Résolutions de l’ONU MEDIA Les livres Coalition news General news English French Spanish Arabic           "Non-trial of  Israel paves the way for violence"   French human rights activist of Arab origin sees a trial against what Israel did or are doing on occupied territories as necessary since otherwise it paves the way for all forms of violence. At International Symposium on Palestine which was held at May 30th-31st in Istanbul, we talked to the Dr. Haytham Manna of Paris based human rights organization, Arab Commission for Human Rights and Coordinator of ICAWC. As a French citizen of Arab origin, he has been to Gaza in order to prepare a report for his organization on the possible war crimes committed by Israel during her assault on Gaza at the beginning of this year. He had a presentation in the symposium on the legal situation of war crimes and international war criminals regarding Gaza example.    Talha Üstundag: Thank you for this opportunity to have this interview. You told in the hall that you had been to Gaza last month. What were your impressions when you have been there?  Haytham Manna: Do you know, for me, when I arrived, it is first time which I was in Palestinian land since 1967. For this reason, I know the Palestinian question, people, what happened, all everything by testimony and by TV. When I arrived there, I saw really another image. The pressure which people feel is unimaginable. It is very, very strong, but, you have the sense of dignity. You cannot find anybody asking you money or anything, nobody asking your help. When people speak, they speak about your responsibility as a human being and not to help them. And this feeling of resistance, civilian resistance, is very important. This is very strong when you discuss with children, not only with adults. For that, I was very shocked, positively shocked by this capacity of resistance, because human condition is inhumane. You can not imagine. You need everything and when you have something you must make pressure, by leftists, by rightists. The destruction of Israelis of the Palestinian infrastructure was complete. You have many manufactures completely destructed. Why? It was not aimed militarily. It has nothing with any military program. It was for humiliation. Israelis have and up-to-now had a dream. It is the capitulation of Gaza. But people said you could come, we could not defend our land. For these people it is impossible. For that, I went out with the idea that a great responsibility is now for me. I must give more time for Gaza, more time with the Palestinian question because of my responsibility with the Arab world at the international level. However really after this mission, I asked my organization to give me more time for Gaza. I asked also for more time for Jerusalem, because we are at a very crucial crossroad now. The Palestinian question is with a little sentence: "to be or not to be" and it is not Palestinian responsibility. It is every human's responsibility.   TÜ: You said that Palestinians were strong despite the pressure of the Israelis, they were very strong. Can they feel that or do they know that the world is with them, supports them in terms of solidarity?  HM: Much of the time I was with a group called the little journalists. It is boys and girls working as journalist to do something about what happened and also to forget suffering and negative aptitude in the first moment. As you know, with a child look, he is with a superpower, military superpower and has nothing to do. His father can not do anything. What he can do? This feeling of handicap; "I can not make anything". Now they try to make rehabilitation, psychological rehabilitation, with journalistic job. And it is very, very good experience and this people said to me why we were alone. They don't have a good idea of the international solidarity and Muslim solidarity. Now they began to know that they are not alone. At the end of the attack, you know, there was no electricity; there was no contact with the world. You have a mobile, but you keep your charge for another thing: to listen to newspaper, to listen to news. For this reason many people said to me that they opened it only one time. These children spoke with me about my quarter in Paris. "Are they with us or only you are with us? Can people understand that you are supporting Gaza? Can people ask you about war crimes or only something happened in Gaza?" And when you have this people of 12 years, 13 years old, I really stopped and said to myself: "impossible, impossible, they are adult". There, the discussion is at a very high level. You know political discussion, civil discussion at a good level with these children who are 12-13 years old. I was really very touched by this group.   TÜ: You said that you had 7000 photos.  HM: Yes. Look at this (showing picture). This is agriculture after the aggression. Now they try to rebuild the agriculture in Gaza. It was completely destroyed and now they try again. They destroyed everything, even animals.   TÜ: How long have you stayed in Gaza?  HM: 9 days and now we will go for second time. We have reports on the web site. We have first reports. I have report of health Right and war crimes in Gaza. It is not finished. I will go back again to have complementary information.   TÜ: In the hall, when you had your presentation, I saw the photos of the x-ray films, nails in the bones and broken body parts. What did you feel when you saw these?  HM: I am a doctor and a human-being. When you know that, you must take apart from human being because of this dangerous arm. It is really sad what a human being can do. I saw about 23 cases with two legs cut, with only one hand... In Gaza there is no infrastructure for people to overcome the situation. You will stay there without any common transport. There is no possibility to do. I saw one of these people with only one hand. He lives with a little contribution given by a mission, humanitarian mission. They take and use it some time. And now he tries to take his university diploma by correspondence. You know there are many cases like that. You can not forget when a child of five years said to me: "Listen to me. We were 12 in the house. Now I am alone". When you see how he looked to the war, to the future, really it is a great job that we need for these children of this generation. He tells you that his family had gone out from the house with their hands up and nothing with them: "They had taken everything. They said that they were without arm, and then the soldiers killed 3 people. Why? Why? We have peaceful people and civilian people. We are not mujaheed or mukatil. Why that?" They cannot understand why since it is irrational. You can not explain this to him. It is impossible to see that for a child.   TÜ: You told a bit about what can be done for the war crimes of Israel in the hall, but we know that Israel is not a signatory of the agreement of international criminal court. HM: Yes, Israel has not ratified it. I think that we have many, many things to do. First thing is the national tribunal and the universal jurisdiction. Everywhere we can use it and we have about 22 countries all over the world. We will do it country after country. If the world wants to see that "we will change our law for the pleasure of Israel", they can. But they must see that they are not a State of Law. It is not the Rule of Law. They must say, "It is another thing, but we are doing". It is another form of barbarism. If they respect really the independence of justice, they must accept our inquiry and our complaints. And they must go to the last step. That means to ask if there are proofs and facts of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Only this option means that impunity will be impossible in the 21st century. It is very important to understand that if you have only one country in a situation of impunity, you open the door to all forms of violence. Today, the only answer for violence is justice.   TÜ: Mr. Manna, thank you for this opportunity.   By Talha Üstündağ, World Bulletin

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